Hi this is Wander from Wander
without being lost. I would like to open a discussion, and a respectful one,
about the Chick issue. I posted a picture on my Facebook page, and it incited a
woman to go on the war path…she felt it necessary to start a rude debate about
the lies that liberals tell, and how they were all dumb, and that I was an
idiot and a moron; All the while claiming to be a Christian woman.
Where did our nation’s
ability to speak in a respectful manner go…granted I lost my temper when She
came at me in such a rude and aggressive way. One of my beliefs is that if you
want to speak down to me, or anyone else you lose the right to be responded to
in a polite fashion, also I think so called “clean” language can be as low and
vulgar as curse words. If you call someone a piece of crap with nice words you
are still calling them a piece of crap!
My questions for you are:
1) Is it ok to start a public
wave of protest against a company based on what they as a company use their
money to support, i.e. social issues?
2) While acting as a CEO of a
company, and commenting about the spending and social practices of the company
you are running are you practicing free speech, or are you laying out what your
company stands for?
3) Do you think Gay marriage is
wrong?
4) Do you think it is ok to
exclude one sect of society from rights granted to another sect based on some people’s
religious beliefs?
5) And finally, what the hell
is a fast food resteraunt doing having an opinion on same sex marriages?
I have never claimed to stand
for any one political entity, but every time I express an opinion on any social
issue I am called names, liberal, conservative, republican, democrat, apologizer,
moron, idiot,ect ect ect…I am just a free thinking American man and my opinion
is based on contemplation and comparing what I see vs what they say.
This not being my blog If
you are rude, or use nice words to convey a nasty position I won’t cuss you out. I
will just express in a very polite way what a nasty person you are how you are unqualified
to hold your position in humanity ...then erase your comment!
Wander
Well, I disagree with Chick-fil-A but do believe they have a right to their opinions. The issue for me is these beliefs imposed on employees and funneling money to illegal acts via intermediaries I.e. Ugandan atrocities against homosexuals. They opposed U.S. action against human rights. So in that sense, a lot more is at stake.
ReplyDeleteOr for human rights I should say.
DeleteI can't speak to any illegal acts, but I do agree that they have every right to put their words and money wherever they want just as long as they do not discriminate against their employees or their customers...
ReplyDeleteHaving said that I can not in clear conscience support a company that would spend it's money with the intent to deny people rights that are freely given to others.
Well perpetuating such things as a Kill the Gays bill makes them liable to me.
DeleteBut also the actions toward female employees are intolerable. They told one to go home and cook for family because pregnant.
Deleteno chicken there for me. i keep calling it chick a flick which is just as well.
Deletei HATE verbal attacks like you've described, chris. i try to be civil but after hearing verbatim quotes from the drudge report, i finally want to say fuck in a short sentence. (as in verb and pronoun). i am a civil debater, but it's bad enough when religion and politics get confused, and then politics and rights, but chicken and bulls? too much for my sensibilities :^)
love
kj
Haha I agree, KJ!
DeleteIt is often the case that "more is at stake" and less often that we have the chance to find that out with any assurance that any of it is actually the truth. So much of what we rise to when political fights break out, so much is just bull wind. Often there is an innocuous kernel of truth with everything else twisted beyond belief, followed by intemperate black and white comments of "true believers" of all sorts. As Chris said, if it starts as bull wind you can't really dress it up without noticing an odd odor. A plague on all your houses! There is no confusion of the truth so complete that you can't make it worse!
ReplyDeleteBull wind...I like that :-)
DeleteMe too! Great point :-)
DeleteSorry, but my experience with religious women is they can be as judgmental as any women I have ever known, and they will remind you are a Christian to justify their opinions. So, I disregard the religion and listen to the words spewing.
ReplyDelete1. As long as we live in a country that gives us the freedom of speech it is okay to start a public protest against a company we feel is wrong, and especially if they are oppressing a biased against a certain group of people. This is how change happens, and how people decide which businesses they want to invest their hard earned money in.
2. If you are a CEO and you say your company does or does not support ABC you are speaking as an expert who is well advised on the policies and practices of your company, even the ones that are known but not written.
3. No.
4. No.
5. I don't know, but it will be a cold day in hell before I will support their business. There's no coming back from that admission on their part. I am tired of blatant, outrageous, self righteous, bigoted people punishing others in the name of their personal belief system. I refuse to give them my business and welcome their exposure, so people who care can make an educated decision on what they will or will not support. This whole thing is akin to the all kinds of other prejudices. I care.
P.S. Did I mention I am a bit on the liberal side :).
2.
What a coincidence. I'm on the liberal side too ;)
DeleteShe writes ...and well! Very clear Amy...i am lockstep with you on this issue ...
DeleteYAY :). Glad we all met. More of these posts, please.
ReplyDeleteI agree! I hope Chris gets back soon.
DeleteI'm not going to comment on all the above right now but I do agree that people could discuss things in a civil manner. The other day I got into a discussion about gun control on Facebook and the gentleman I talked to was completely respectful and we calmly debated the issue for a while. I realized we were not going to agree so I suggested we agree to disagree and he said fair enough.
ReplyDeleteI wish more people would take that approach to discussions.
Me too, Kendall. It's very rare nowadays though not so much on the Bat where all views are welcome :-)
Delete1. Yes, it's ok.
ReplyDelete2. Fuzzy, but ultimately I'd say no you weren't.
3. I think gay marriage doesn't exist.
4. No.
5. Technically the company has no opinion whatsoever. But do I think a human being who happens to OWN a company can have an opinion. Of course!
I agree that a company can't have an opinion in a sense but the collective view of board members and officials running it can amount to the same.
DeleteYes, I'd agree with that.
DeleteHeather...?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean you think gay marriage doesn't exist?
Now please remember that I am speaking strictly from a secular stand point where marriage is a binding legal agreement with the state about the joining of two households through the union of two consenting adults...
Well, if you define marriage in that way then yes, gay marriage exists. It's just that that isn't what marriage is. That's what I meant. Marriage as it was created can't happen between two people of the same gender.
DeleteSince the church handed out the ability to bind two consenting adults in some form of agreement to the state and called it marriage; however, it's really come to mean anything we'd like it to mean. Which is weird, but c'est la vie.
Oh wow, Wander. I'm so sorry. I could have sworn I replied to this. I probably did and then closed it before I proved I wasn't a robot.
DeleteWhat I think I said before was. Yes, if you define marriage as a binding legal agreement with the state about the joining of two households through the union of two consenting adults, then yes, gay marriage exists. Similarly I could define marriage as a flat thing made out of rather thick material one could use to take cookies out of an oven. In which case my pot holder is a marriage too. I mean, yes, if you change the definition of marriage, it can be anything you like. However, that isn't what marriage is.
As far as the state or country (both being secular entitys) marriage is a legal contract joining two households. Churches can choose weather they performe them, but I feel as a wholly secular entity the state should have no basis to deny one sect of society a privilage that it affording others based on the fact that some religious people find it repugnant. That is why black people are free today and can vote, also why women have so many rights today that they didn't have one hundred years ago. And compairing the union of two loving humans to placing two things (and it would take more than placing them together to "marry" them. Just because the church has coopted the term doesn't mean that they created marrage...hence the reason marriages come along with very serious legal documents, not religious ones, secular ones. And by the way...look up the actual definitions of words before you justify your position with sarcasm...marriage, or to marry is the joining of two or more sepperate things into one. I hope you understand that sarcasm is not whit it is demeaning to the person you are speaking to, sarcasm relys on a lak of intelligence in the person it is directed, making it an insult
ReplyDeleteYeah, see, that's the thing. I don't believe that's what marriage is. I believe it is something given by God, dispensed by the church. You say the church co-opted the term, I say it belonged to the church first. The church didn't create it. God did. That is where our paths separate.
ReplyDeleteI'm very sorry you felt I was being sarcastic. I actually try very hard never to be sarcastic. I don't think it's remotely witty or funny, and I have trouble understanding when people are being sarcastic to me. I always think they are being serious. It's like it doesn't translate. So, if I came off as sarcastic, I'm quite saddened by that.
I was actually just using a more "obvious" example to illustrate how if you decide to define something in a wrong way that is your own fault. Does that make sense? Like if I defined a couch as something with wheels that you drove around in, and insisted on calling my car, a couch, people would be confused by that.
The word way predates the church Heather, just because you want to believe the church created it doesn't mean it is true, a more appropriate word for you to stand behind would be matrimony, which is actually the sacrament that the church performs...
ReplyDeleteMarriage is the union of two different surnames, in friendship and in love, in order to continue the posterity of the former sages, and to furnish those who shall preside at the sacrifices to heaven and earth, at those in the ancestral temple, and at those at the altars to the spirits of the land and grain. ”
—Confucius, [5]
well before Christianity...at least 500 years before Christ was born
No no. The church didn't create it. Is that what I said? I meant to say God created it, and it is the Church's duty to dispense it. Marriage is matrimony.
ReplyDeleteThe people of God were around before Confucius. :-) The nation of Israel would be the equivalent of the church. Confucius doesn't define it either.
There is a separation of church and state for a reason...no church has the right to infringe on the civil rights of the citizens of USA ...but the church has the right to not perform those weddings and the church has the right to believe they are wrong, within the church, not outside of it, except with the use of free speech.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you there. But I'm afraid we'll always differ on the definition of marriage. That's fine though. I've differed with people I respect before. :-)
DeleteWell said, Heather, well said
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