Rants and Ravings from your Friendly Neighborhood Liberals
"the VAST portion of their funds go to birth control and cancer screening and education" Was there a stat for this? I like this conversation. I think for the most part you guys were fairly respectful.Interesting thoughts about abortion stuff being only voted on by women. This might be an interesting experiment...I have been going off the assumption that most men are pro-choice (I actually looked this up and found out that it wasn't true), but I wouldn't want to take the vote away from anyone just based on their gender. I mean, women were the one who fought for the 19th amendment, so I'd feel like a hypocrite if I wanted that. The other fellow certainly has a point linking planned parenthood and destruction of minorities. Especially considering some rather damning quotes from its founder, Ms. Sanger
The percentage of funding for abortion is 3% so that means 97% of the dollars granted to planned parenthood goes to maintaining women's health and services like birth control cancer screenings pap smears ect ect ect ect the three percent comes directly out of private funds from private donations from people who know what some small portion of their money is going towards.As far as the minority issue, I have no idea what the percentage of minority abortions there are...I'll try to find the statistics to see if his areguement has any merit based in fact. Remember I believe abortion is repugnant but I also believe it is not my place to dictate my beliefs to any woman....but having said that late term abortion is fucking wrong and should be illegal except in cases of life and death
My original question was how was Paul Ryan going to explain away using words like legitimate rape in legislation he co sponsored...they asked for proof, then acted like my sources were not valid, and then deflected with a personal attack... "frigging liberals, rome is burning and all you want to do is throw gas on it" that is how people learn to debate...dehumanize the other party. I responded with coarse words because I believe if you can't keep a debate civil (no name calling) then you do not deserve to be treated politely...too many people think it is ok to insult people just as long as you use "clean or nice" words
Was he the "legitimate rape" guy? I thought that was someone else.Yeah, that 3% statistic is actually pretty sketchy. The actual wording is that three percent of their "services" are abortions, but one "service" can be handing out a condom. If you actually did the math and found out how much income is attributable to abortions the stat is about 40%. There are other places that you can be screened for cancer.
Glad we agree on late term abortion and how to debate. Yes, there were some times when you guys got huffy, but I think for the most part you guys were both pretty respectful.
Heather your stats are wrong...the actual stats are below...they do not spend 40 % of their annual budget on abortion...tell me where low income women can have cancer screenings pap exams sexually transmitted disease treatment for free? and a portion of those abortions are actually DNC abortive services that is where the baby is already dead. The sights that come close to the number you used used the same argument because they didn't care to look at the actual numerical data. not agreeing about abortion is fine, but lying and using false data to support your (and I am not directing this at you Heather) position is wrong. The sight that came closest to the number you quoted also said planned parenthood sold people on the idea of having an abortion v adoption which is patently false. And as far as the guy running for office that made the legitimate rape statement yes that was not Paul Ryan, but Paul Ryan co sponsored legislation that used phrasing like Forcible rape and Legitimate rape...as if Rape had a softer side
Ok, you are going to have to prove that my stats are wrong because I didn't just make them up. I looked them up. They very purposefully use the words "3% of total services" because they knew if you looked up the amount of money spent it would NOT be 3%. So, actually it is the Planned Parenthood that twists the wording to make the data sound more palatable. Again, handing out a condom is a service. So, if they handed out 97 condoms (and I'm sure they do) and performed three abortions. Then it counts as 3%. But do you really think in that scenario that the abortions take only three percent of the funding? Yes! There are clinics that offer free screenings in every state. The Center for Disease Control and Prevention has programs for people with low incomes.I also agree that planned parenthood sells people on the idea of abortion v. adoption. My mother was on the board of directors at a Crisis Pregnancy Center in California and she heard PLENTY of tales from women about Planned Parenthoods in the area. Oh ok. Yeah, that is strange....the rape comments.
I went to the specific site you got your info from and I know this because they used the very same 97 condoms analogy you used. look at the stats of what they did and look at how many abortions they performed there is no way they could have afforded the other services if they spent 40 percent of their budget on abortion. And having actually been in a planned parenthood, which I assume you have not because you are using info from someone that got the info from someone else, and the initial person was sharing their opinion in the first place. and the stats show that if the only contraceptive service they performed was giving out condoms (which it is most definitely not, they also give out the pill, offer tubal legations vasectomies and IUD's) the percentage could only be ten to one not thirty three to one. I don't need to prove your percentages wrong, rather you need to be able to prove your position Heather. with actual #'s v suppositions Again I agree with your right to disagree with the performance of abortions but I don't agree with your right to make claims that are not backed up by any data. They had 11,383,900 services that cost money, only (again remember I don't like abortion) 332,278 abortions were performed the number is actually less then three % and then add the 830000 brest exams (no $ on that one, but saves a shitload of lives) and the one million cervical cancer screenings (also saves a shitload of lives)shows that for every one abortion there is 39.12 other things done which help the lives of MILLIONS of women that do not have abortions. Planned parenthood does not try to sell people on abortion; they don't try to talk people out of having one either. They offer options, it is up to the client to decide for themselves what their choice is. It would be wrong for them to make any part of the process any harder on the people having the procedure. I offered data Heather I challenge you to do the same, and please remember I am not trying to change your mind about abortion, or Planned Parenthood for that matter, rather I am asking you to prove your assertions.
Plenty of websites use the 97 condoms analogy. My mother personally knows people who have been pressured into abortions by Planned Parenthood employees. Again, Guttmacher purposefully does not use dollar amounts, they use "services performed." Abortions are 3% of the services performed. I guarantee you abortions do not use 3% of their budget.
Heather here is a breakdown of what they (planned parenthood) In 2009, Planned Parenthood provided 4,009,549 contraceptive services (35% of total), 3,955,926 sexually transmitted disease services (35% of total), 1,830,811 cancer related services (16% of total), 1,178,369 pregnancy/prenatal/midlife services (10% of total), 332,278 abortion services (3% of total), and 76,977 other services (1% of total), for a total of 11,383,900 services. The organization also said its doctors and nurses annually conduct 1 million screenings for cervical cancer and 830,000 breast exams.
Yes, I reiterate. This is a breakdown in percentages of "services" NOT of funds.
the breakdown was put up before you made your claim about 40% so your rebuttal was unnecessary
"And you know how I feel about abortion Rebekah...I also believe that it should go to a woman only vote...men cant get pregnant we should stay out of the legislation of female reproductive laws"YAY!!!!!!!!!!! I can't even talk on this subject without getting angry. Well done!