Or a king and a man after God's own heart (1 Samuel 13:13-14 "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.") take the wife of another man and have her husband sent to the forefront of a battle line so that he can have that man's wife as his own wife.
From the Bible: 2 Samuel 11:2,3,4...One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful,and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, "Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?" Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. Then she went back home.
5...The woman conceived and sent word to David saying, "I am pregnant." MY paraphrase, so King David has the woman's husband brought home so he will have sex with his wife and think the child is his, but Uriah a good man, does not have sex with his wife because he doesn't feel good about that when his fellow soldiers are still at battle. So the king makes a new plan: verse 15...In it he wrote, "Put Uriah in the front line where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."
Not to worry, Uriah is killed and David does the honorable thing and marries Bathsheba.
2 Samuel 2:2 So David went up there with his two wives, Ahinoam of Jezreel and Abigail, the widow of Nabal of Carmel.
If we read earlier in the story, 1 Samuel 25:43 (we realize David is committing adultery on his current wives as well as having Bathsheba do the same to her own husband) David had also married Ahinoam of Jezreel, and they both were his wives. Ben, I could talk on this post for hours. You barely brush the surface. But, your post reminded me of this complex story from the Bible that has always fascinated me for all kinds of reasons. There are so many gems to be found from a thorough, open eyed reading.
Very respectfully submitted. I know I tread on tender ground. xxamy
Er, I'm sorry...isn't it a GOOD thing that God still loves sinners? You do realize the son of Bathsheba and David died for the sins of his parents, yes? You also realize that David realizes that what he did was wrong and he actually repented of this, yes? You do realize that though there are biblical characters who had more than one wife, it's later spoken about very strongly that men be the husbands of one wife, yes?
Your first point is a gimme. You cannot marry someone outside the faith. The rest really have to be contextualized but it would take a rather long post.
2. There are some things in the OT that aren't all carried over to the NT. That is, they applied directly to the nation of Israel, and while we still have to pay attention (and not all of them have been dropped, for example paedophilia is still a sin) to them, we don't have to follow all of the OT laws anymore. That being said, we still do believe that the man is the "head" of the marriage. I wouldn't call it a "subordinate" position though, since men and women are told to "submit yourself one to another." (Eph. 5:21)
3. Not all marriages from the bible were arranged. Although I tried for years to get my parents to arrange one for me. They apparently didn't like the idea. hehehe!
4. The context of the Mark passage is some Jewish leaders trying to trick Jesus into answering wrong according to their tradition. Recall that not all of Jewish tradition is in line with the entirety of the bible. This particular law was man made.
5. Yes, this does not mean however that being unfaithful is something God wants. There is enough later support of being the husband of one wife (1 Tim. 3:2; Prov. 5:18) and in other books where a husband (singular) is referred to, a wife (also singular) is referred to. Basically there is enough that I feel it's very clear that faithfulness is a virtue. The GOOD part of this though is that God still works his plan through sinners. Those men were sinners which is why they cheated on their wives, but God doesn't expect perfection from us, just from Jesus who had to die to make us perfect.
6. I don't think God blessed them FOR being polygamists. Recall this is a culture where polygamy was normal. The bible IS silent on this issue. I think it's quite clear about what a marriage looks like for us now, but there does seem to be an allowance of polygamy in the bible, particularly the Old Testament. Some bible scholars speculate that because it WAS a different culture (a highly patriarchal one) and women on their own did not have the freedom say, I would have, today. So it is possible that God allowed polygamy here in order to provide protection for more women. If this were true, I think we'd have to assume the polygamy here is Amoral rather than IMmoral. As in, it would be preferable to be one of a couple wives rather than be forced into prostitution or starve. Now, I'm not sure if I buy that explanation myself. Usually when the bible doesn't directly speak to it (or even indirectly speak to it), I try not to speculate. I'm just giving you what some people think.
Or a king and a man after God's own heart (1 Samuel 13:13-14 "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.") take the wife of another man and have her husband sent to the forefront of a battle line so that he can have that man's wife as his own wife.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Bible: 2 Samuel 11:2,3,4...One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful,and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, "Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?" Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. Then she went back home.
5...The woman conceived and sent word to David
saying, "I am pregnant."
MY paraphrase, so King David has the woman's husband brought home so he will have sex with his wife and think the child is his, but Uriah a good man, does not have sex with his wife because he doesn't feel good about that when his fellow soldiers are still at battle. So the king makes a new plan:
verse 15...In it he wrote, "Put Uriah in the front line where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."
Not to worry, Uriah is killed and David does the honorable thing and marries Bathsheba.
2 Samuel 2:2 So David went up there with his two wives, Ahinoam of Jezreel and Abigail, the widow of Nabal of Carmel.
If we read earlier in the story, 1 Samuel 25:43 (we realize David is committing adultery on his current wives as well as having Bathsheba do the same to her own husband) David had also married Ahinoam of Jezreel, and they both were his wives.
Ben, I could talk on this post for hours. You barely brush the surface. But, your post reminded me of this complex story from the Bible that has always fascinated me for all kinds of reasons. There are so many gems to be found from a thorough, open eyed reading.
Very respectfully submitted. I know I tread on tender ground. xxamy
Brilliant commentary :-)
DeleteRidiculously long! My apologies. I didn't know until I posted and then blushed. Glad no offense occurred as a result of expressing my lengthy thought.
ReplyDeleteOf coure not :-)
DeleteThe lengthier the better!
Expound away...The bible Things like this throughout it...
ReplyDeleteOh, too many times, Chris.
DeleteEr, I'm sorry...isn't it a GOOD thing that God still loves sinners? You do realize the son of Bathsheba and David died for the sins of his parents, yes? You also realize that David realizes that what he did was wrong and he actually repented of this, yes? You do realize that though there are biblical characters who had more than one wife, it's later spoken about very strongly that men be the husbands of one wife, yes?
ReplyDeleteYour first point is a gimme. You cannot marry someone outside the faith. The rest really have to be contextualized but it would take a rather long post.
Oh, long post, long post!
DeleteI was really looking forward to your insight on this one, Heather :-)
Alrighty then.
Delete1. I still agree.
2. There are some things in the OT that aren't all carried over to the NT. That is, they applied directly to the nation of Israel, and while we still have to pay attention (and not all of them have been dropped, for example paedophilia is still a sin) to them, we don't have to follow all of the OT laws anymore. That being said, we still do believe that the man is the "head" of the marriage. I wouldn't call it a "subordinate" position though, since men and women are told to "submit yourself one to another." (Eph. 5:21)
3. Not all marriages from the bible were arranged. Although I tried for years to get my parents to arrange one for me. They apparently didn't like the idea. hehehe!
4. The context of the Mark passage is some Jewish leaders trying to trick Jesus into answering wrong according to their tradition. Recall that not all of Jewish tradition is in line with the entirety of the bible. This particular law was man made.
5. Yes, this does not mean however that being unfaithful is something God wants. There is enough later support of being the husband of one wife (1 Tim. 3:2; Prov. 5:18) and in other books where a husband (singular) is referred to, a wife (also singular) is referred to. Basically there is enough that I feel it's very clear that faithfulness is a virtue.
The GOOD part of this though is that God still works his plan through sinners. Those men were sinners which is why they cheated on their wives, but God doesn't expect perfection from us, just from Jesus who had to die to make us perfect.
6. I don't think God blessed them FOR being polygamists. Recall this is a culture where polygamy was normal. The bible IS silent on this issue. I think it's quite clear about what a marriage looks like for us now, but there does seem to be an allowance of polygamy in the bible, particularly the Old Testament.
Some bible scholars speculate that because it WAS a different culture (a highly patriarchal one) and women on their own did not have the freedom say, I would have, today. So it is possible that God allowed polygamy here in order to provide protection for more women. If this were true, I think we'd have to assume the polygamy here is Amoral rather than IMmoral. As in, it would be preferable to be one of a couple wives rather than be forced into prostitution or starve.
Now, I'm not sure if I buy that explanation myself. Usually when the bible doesn't directly speak to it (or even indirectly speak to it), I try not to speculate. I'm just giving you what some people think.
Thank you, Heather :-) That helps me understand a lot.
DeleteAaaanytime. I love this stuff, Ben.
Delete